View source for Talk:bka' brgyud che bzhi chung brgyad

==First Occurrence?==
Does anyone know when the phrase ''bka' brgyud che bzhi chung brgyad'' first occurs? - I have seen a claim that it was coined by Kongtrul, but my suspicion is that it goes further back. [[User:Cfynn|Chris]] 11:56, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

It was already used by ban sgar 'jam dpal bzang po (15th-16th cent.; a student of the 6th Karmapa mthong ba don ldan and principal teacher of the 7th Karmapa chos grags rgya mtsho) in his famous "rdo rje 'chang thung ma" more than 200 years before Kongtrul... [[TSD]]