bsgrub bya ldog pa med pa

among the chos mi mthun pa'i dpe ltar snang lnga, gtan tsigs rig pa'i sbyor ba way of establishing gyi an example w an incompatible dharma chos mi mthun pa'i dpe, since it cannot refute the thesis [bsgrub bya], there is the fault of non-refutation, eg, impermanent things, thogs bcas mthong ba yin te, like an atom, OR, sound is permanent, because it is thogs pa med pa, for example, like space and an atom; sgra'i bstan bcos and bye brag pa gnyis kas by maintaining that an atom is permanent, cannot refute that the subject is eternal. [IW]