bsgrub bya sgrub byed gnyis ka ldog pa med pa

among the chos mi mthun pa'i dpe ltar snang lnga, gtan tsigs rig pa's way of establishing the sbyor ba has an example w an incompatible dharma chos mi mthun pa'i dpe, so that both thesis and conclusion cannot be reversed sgrub byed dang bsgrub bya, and there is the fault of non-refutation, eg, according to the sgra'i bstan bcos kyis yod pa'i bstan bcos sound is permanent, since it is thogs pa med pa. If a example w an incompatible dharma, like space is given, space is eternal &, thogs pa med pa so neither thesis or conclusion can be refuted] [IW]